About a month ago, I started having the infamous “headphone jack” issue on my iPhone. My iPhone will not correctly switch back to handset mode when I unplug my earphones, or even worse, if I am using the handset, it will switch to headphone mode in the middle of a call and I won’t be able to hear anything anymore. Or is just sits on the table minding its own business and decides to switch.
When I first started having the issue, I jumped on Google and saw that hundreds, if not thousands of other iPhone users were having the same issue. Some said to just plug the headphones in and out a few times, but that only works temporarily. Others said to get the debris out using canned air. I did that too. Another said to use a Q-tip and a dab of rubbing alcohol to clean in there really good. I tried it all. The issue still persists. Several times a day my phone will decide on its own “Hey, I think I’ll switch to headphone mode for a while!”
So, I finally called Apple Corporate Support since my phone was purchased through work. I described the problem to them. They agreed that it sounded like my phone was faulty and made an appointment for me to visit the Apple Store in my area at 6:30 that evening. It is a bit of a drive from me, so it wasn’t like I could just stop by on the way home. I went in, gave my phone to the rep, explained the issue, etc. He used a tool to remove the SIM card, looked in the headphone jack and SIM slot really good with a flash light, connected it to his computer and ran some sort of diagnostics, then said “well I am going to swap this out for you no problem, let me just go in the back for a minute.” He came back a couple of minutes later, with his flashlight and says “Umm Ma’am, do you see this red strip under the connector here?” I said “yeah, what is that?” He says “That is a moisture sensor. This phone has been exposed to moisture.” I stupidly said “Umm, ok… so what now?” He said “That voids the warranty and there is nothing that we can do for you. If you want to get a new phone you will have to buy one for $399.” Now, I got this phone last July through my job. I calmly explained that the phone has not been wet, etc. but there was nothing he could do for me. I left. I left pretty calmly because I *DID* get this phone through work. It was not my $$ that I was losing. And the phone does still work, I just have to use my earphones if I want to have a conversation. Now, if I would have purchased this phone myself I would probably still be at the store raising hell.
So I jump back on Google and again I see that numerous other iPhone owners have had this happen to them. Apparently there are 4 sensors in the phone. One in the headphone jack, one under the USB connector slot, and 2 inside the phone. Who is the genius that put moisture sensors on those 2 outside spots??? I know mostly all cellphones have them INSIDE so that if someone drops their phone in the toilet they don’t try to get over by taking it in and saying that it does not work. But on the outside??
What this means for us iPhone users is:
1. Even though one of the greatest functions of the phone is that it’s an MP3 player, don’t dare wear your iPhone at the gym because you might sweat on it! Just imagine that? You are working out, the phone is safely tucked into your pocket or arm strap, but you don’t notice that little drip of sweat traveling down the earphone cord and into the slot. Warranty void!
2. Waiting on an important call but need to shower? Don’t dare leave your iPhone on the counter and get the bathroom too steamy. Condensation might form on the phone and bingo, moisture sensor activated. Warranty void!
3. Don’t get caught in the rain (or even a drizzle) with your phone in your pocket unless you are sure it’s in a waterproof bag. Because you cannot keep track of where every raindrop goes. One might make its way into your pocket and turn that indicator red. Warranty void!
4. This one is a true story. I was telling my boss about my dilemma and he said “Yep. I know all about the moisture sensor. My daughter is on her 2nd iPhone. The first one she dropped in the toilet so of course there was no argument for warranty there. But, she bought a new one, and her dog licked it. Now the warranty is void.” LOL!!!!!
I have no clue what happened to my own phone. I have had it in the bathroom while showering though, so I suspect that one. Or did he go in the back and put a drop of water on it? HA!
There are several other scenarios I could come up with. I just really cannot believe that they designed it that way. But you know what? I got a $100 Apple coupon out of it. But nope, it cannot be used towards the purchase of a new phone (or an Apple TV) apparently. AND it cannot be used in the education store, so I cannot use it through my job.
Lastly, the very nice rep that I spoke to did tell me that things will definitely get better. He made big hints at hardware changes, etc. coming soon when I said that I will probably want the newer iPhone this summer anyway. And it sounds like they made changes in the sensors as well.
Now I am out to warn all poor unsuspecting iPhone users: WATCH OUT FOR THOSE SENSORS!!
UPDATE 3/14/2016: It seems that Apple still has moisture sensors in the newer devices. Hopefully they have fixed the issue of the sensitive sensor. Below is a chart of where the sensors are located on each Apple device. For more information see the Apple website.
I thought this post was brand new! I just handed $400 to the tech at the Apple Store becuase my iPhone 11 moisture sensor was red. On the Apple website, this phone is marketed as withstanding water up to 6 feet for half an hour! Yet somehow my never been in a puddle phone is trash. I spoke with the manager for half an hour and learned that in 10 years he has rarely seen this problem, which suggests that some iPhones are defective. He would not admit this, but he was trapped by his words.
Words fail me. Bought an iphone and had normal use. In one month stopped working. Nope they wont fix it because of one alert button with humidity turning red. I did nothing to it, except I live right next to the Atlantic in Portugal. The humidity sensor is pants. I feel that I will never buy an iphone again and it was my first go. I loved it…but now I will never buy another…it was a good lesson learnt. There is even a smart phone which is completely waterproof, I guess that will be my next phone. 300 euros plus down the toilet, unfortunate turn of phrase as it didnt go anywhere near water. Apple have huge profits and probably not even paying tax on it…somebody needs to get his exposed this on the news. Mine was the new apple rose gold SE phone. Samantha Jennings Portugal
I know this is quite an old post, however its worth adding to this post because these issues/problems haven’t go away with the new iPhone 4 and more than likely the iPhone 5.
I experienced similar problems with my hands free function, in my case it was fluff. I went to the Apple store, they new straight away which suggested that this was an all to common occurrence.
To my surprise there was no product in the store to prevent it happening again, I didn’t want to buy a $40 phone cover with a headphone jack cover built in.
So I invented a really cool product that protects and personalises your mobile device. Its called the iCatchi Plug.
I also invented a headphone cable clip to keep your plug secure when your making hands free calls or listening to music.
If you want an in-expensive solution to protect your phone please check out icatchi.com.
AAPL is taking the ridiculous position my ipod touch warranty is invalid due to what they allege is water damage -even though this is in a completely different location on the unit (the charging connector) which they admit has no possible impact on the defective headphone jack. There was never any water damage to the ipod and the headphone jack issue is a well known problem affecting many users. Why do consumers put up with this nonsense
I know a place that can fix any iphone problem…
http://gomdwireless.com/
i found a great place that will repair water damaged or any other type of damage to the iPhone
they work with non warranty repairs
http://www.BrokeMyiPhone.com
I faced the same issue today with my ipod touch. The apple’s so called “Genius” rep informed me that the warranty is void due to moisture sensor being tripped in the headphone jack even though my itouch was never exposed to water or any kind of liquid. They showed me the red dot in the headphone jack.
I am quite frustrated with this. I would never think of buying any more apple product coz i have never ever exposed it to water.
I faced the same issue today with my ipod touch. The apple’s so called “Genius” rep informed me that the warranty is void due to moisture sensor being tripped in the headphone jack even though my itouch was never exposed to water or any kind of liquid. They showed me the red dot in the headphone jack.
I am quite frustrated with this. I would never think of buying any more apple product coz i have never ever exposed it to water.
I am having the same “warranty void” issue with Apple store. My screen flickers and the whole screen shakes continously. I have 3G phone which is 9 months old. I live in NY and have kept good care of my iphone. Don’t know how the USB connector sensor turned pink/red.
Now they are asking me $199 to get a replacement phone. I am not sure whether they will give me 3GS phone, if I decide to go that route.
I am really disappointed the way things have been handled by Apple store. I will call AT&T and see if they can go anything about it. Also I will try to get in touch with Apple’s Customer Relations rep. to see if they can understand the problem.
One thing is for sure – The way all these technicians talk and quickly check these sensors (once you walk in the store) with an intention to throw you out saying – “Your Warranty just voided because of liquid contact” ; already know this generic problem with the design of this hyped Smartphone.
I am really annoyed and hurt! I didn’t expect this from AAPL.
I am having the same “warranty void” issue with Apple store. My screen flickers and the whole screen shakes continously. I have 3G phone which is 9 months old. I live in NY and have kept good care of my iphone. Don’t know how the USB connector sensor turned pink/red.
Now they are asking me $199 to get a replacement phone. I am not sure whether they will give me 3GS phone, if I decide to go that route.
I am really disappointed the way things have been handled by Apple store. I will call AT&T and see if they can go anything about it. Also I will try to get in touch with Apple’s Customer Relations rep. to see if they can understand the problem.
One thing is for sure – The way all these technicians talk and quickly check these sensors (once you walk in the store) with an intention to throw you out saying – “Your Warranty just voided because of liquid contact” ; already know this generic problem with the design of this hyped Smartphone.
I am really annoyed and hurt! I didn’t expect this from AAPL.
I’m modifying one of my paragraphs from my first post on 15Oct2009.
From
“The sensors provide too many “false positives” to be reliable, and as a scientist from a major corporation I can state that Apple engineers (and almost certainly the exectives) MUST know this!”
To
“The sensors apparently provide too many warranty violation ‘false positives’ to be reliable with respect to determining an act of warranty violation by the customer in normal and expected use. If the iPhone cannot stand up to environmental exposures found in normal and expected use (e.g. talking on the phone as you walk into a warm, humid building from the cold outdoors), then I would question its design. If the ‘warranty violation’ sensors are activated under normal and expected use conditions then that is inappropriate and should be remedied. If this is what is going on then as a scientist from a major corporation I can state that Apple engineers (and almost certainly the exectives) must know this by now.”
I’m modifying one of my paragraphs from my first post on 15Oct2009.
From
“The sensors provide too many “false positives” to be reliable, and as a scientist from a major corporation I can state that Apple engineers (and almost certainly the exectives) MUST know this!”
To
“The sensors apparently provide too many warranty violation ‘false positives’ to be reliable with respect to determining an act of warranty violation by the customer in normal and expected use. If the iPhone cannot stand up to environmental exposures found in normal and expected use (e.g. talking on the phone as you walk into a warm, humid building from the cold outdoors), then I would question its design. If the ‘warranty violation’ sensors are activated under normal and expected use conditions then that is inappropriate and should be remedied. If this is what is going on then as a scientist from a major corporation I can state that Apple engineers (and almost certainly the exectives) must know this by now.”
I just ran into the same moisture sensor problem yesterday. My phone which is 5 months old started saying no sim card even though the sim card was still in it. I took it to apple and they told me to take it home and do a restore. After explaining to them that i had already tried that, the tech told me my phone had water damage and he could not help me. I have never gotten my phone wet and asked what he was talking about. He then showed me the sensor near the usb connector. What a scam! It makes no sense to put a sensor on the outside like that. I live in a humid place, i wonder how long it took for that sensor to turn red, probably the day i bought it! Also, what do you do when you get a little dust in the bottom of your phone? Blowing the dust out is exposing moisture to the sensor! There are also applications such as ballonimals that gets you to blow into the usb connector to make the game work. I love the capabilities of the iphone and have had each generation but I’m starting to see Apple is just trying to scam too much!
@Amanda,
“There are also applications such as ballonimals that gets you to blow into the usb connector to make the game work.”
It’s hard to believe an approved “app” instructs people to blow into an open USB port (or any orifice of a sensitive electronic device), especially if that air is supposed to be ‘extra-forceful’ to do or measure something specific in an “app” (e.g. the harder you blow the bigger the balloon animal, etc). Not only will prolonged breathing into the port eventually produce internal condensate (especially if the phone is cool), it is likely the person will expel water droplets (spit) directly into the port as well.
It seems to me that those kinds of “apps” would have a high probability of ‘activating’ the warranty violation sensors in a fairly short amount of time.
I wonder what Apple’s design and test engineers think about such “apps”.
@Amanda, @ExNoctum,
I just looked up balloonnimals because I had never heard of it. I actually says to blow into the MICROPHONE port on your iPhone NOT the USB port. But, i can certainly see how someone would make that mistake since the iPhone has no visible microphone port.
I have received a ton of other emails from people that have also had this issue. I am going to do an update post today. I never did hear back from Apple regarding whether or not they found moisture damage IN my phone which leads me to believe that they did not.
I just ran into the same moisture sensor problem yesterday. My phone which is 5 months old started saying no sim card even though the sim card was still in it. I took it to apple and they told me to take it home and do a restore. After explaining to them that i had already tried that, the tech told me my phone had water damage and he could not help me. I have never gotten my phone wet and asked what he was talking about. He then showed me the sensor near the usb connector. What a scam! It makes no sense to put a sensor on the outside like that. I live in a humid place, i wonder how long it took for that sensor to turn red, probably the day i bought it! Also, what do you do when you get a little dust in the bottom of your phone? Blowing the dust out is exposing moisture to the sensor! There are also applications such as ballonimals that gets you to blow into the usb connector to make the game work. I love the capabilities of the iphone and have had each generation but I’m starting to see Apple is just trying to scam too much!
@Amanda,
“There are also applications such as ballonimals that gets you to blow into the usb connector to make the game work.”
It’s hard to believe an approved “app” instructs people to blow into an open USB port (or any orifice of a sensitive electronic device), especially if that air is supposed to be ‘extra-forceful’ to do or measure something specific in an “app” (e.g. the harder you blow the bigger the balloon animal, etc). Not only will prolonged breathing into the port eventually produce internal condensate (especially if the phone is cool), it is likely the person will expel water droplets (spit) directly into the port as well.
It seems to me that those kinds of “apps” would have a high probability of ‘activating’ the warranty violation sensors in a fairly short amount of time.
I wonder what Apple’s design and test engineers think about such “apps”.
@Amanda, @ExNoctum,
I just looked up balloonnimals because I had never heard of it. I actually says to blow into the MICROPHONE port on your iPhone NOT the USB port. But, i can certainly see how someone would make that mistake since the iPhone has no visible microphone port.
I have received a ton of other emails from people that have also had this issue. I am going to do an update post today. I never did hear back from Apple regarding whether or not they found moisture damage IN my phone which leads me to believe that they did not.
More info…
If you look at the iPhone specifications, you will note that they clearly state “Relative humidity: 5% to 95% NONCONDENSING” as an operational and storage environmental requirement. (because condensation on the moisture strips will activate them).
This means if you EVER expose the phone to atmospheric conditions in which atmospheric condensation can occur (which is common in many places around the world) regardless if the temperature is kept within specified limits you still run the risk of:
=Instant “warranty violation”!!!
In fact, it’s even POSSIBLE that those moisture strips in some of the phones have already been activated by the time you buy the phone. Who knows what environmental conditions the phone was exposed to before you bought it?
Search on these 3 terms for details:
iphone humidity specification
More info…
If you look at the iPhone specifications, you will note that they clearly state “Relative humidity: 5% to 95% NONCONDENSING” as an operational and storage environmental requirement. (because condensation on the moisture strips will activate them).
This means if you EVER expose the phone to atmospheric conditions in which atmospheric condensation can occur (which is common in many places around the world) regardless if the temperature is kept within specified limits you still run the risk of:
=Instant “warranty violation”!!!
In fact, it’s even POSSIBLE that those moisture strips in some of the phones have already been activated by the time you buy the phone. Who knows what environmental conditions the phone was exposed to before you bought it?
Search on these 3 terms for details:
iphone humidity specification
Rubbing alcohol (the most common type) is 30% water and will activate the sensors. 99% alcohol is much less likely to do so, but it is much more likely to damage the exterior of common plastic devices, and could damage device displays as well.
Condensation (water) may also form when you use compressed air to clean out a device. The air comes out of the can quite a bit colder (especially if you tilt the can incorrectly and the “air” causes frost to form)…than the surrounding air, and cools the device (and the moisture strips). This causes atmospheric water to condense on the cooled parts…
=Instant “warranty violation”!!!
Same thing happens when you bring your phone from outside cold air to an inside warm and slightly humid building. Water will condense on the cold parts, outside AND inside the phone. So if you expose your phone to the cold as you walk around, then go inside to warm up…
=Instant “warranty violation”!!!
(note: it used to be that devices had some immunity because they had a warning that told users to let the devices acclimate before using them after coming in from the cold. But now, devices such as phones, ipods, etc. are ALWAYS on to some degree. So, they never have a chance to “acclimate” before power is applied.
The sensors provide too many “false positives” to be reliable, and as a scientist from a major corporation I can state that Apple engineers (and almost certainly the exectives) MUST know this!
Rubbing alcohol (the most common type) is 30% water and will activate the sensors. 99% alcohol is much less likely to do so, but it is much more likely to damage the exterior of common plastic devices, and could damage device displays as well.
Condensation (water) may also form when you use compressed air to clean out a device. The air comes out of the can quite a bit colder (especially if you tilt the can incorrectly and the “air” causes frost to form)…than the surrounding air, and cools the device (and the moisture strips). This causes atmospheric water to condense on the cooled parts…
=Instant “warranty violation”!!!
Same thing happens when you bring your phone from outside cold air to an inside warm and slightly humid building. Water will condense on the cold parts, outside AND inside the phone. So if you expose your phone to the cold as you walk around, then go inside to warm up…
=Instant “warranty violation”!!!
(note: it used to be that devices had some immunity because they had a warning that told users to let the devices acclimate before using them after coming in from the cold. But now, devices such as phones, ipods, etc. are ALWAYS on to some degree. So, they never have a chance to “acclimate” before power is applied.
The sensors provide too many “false positives” to be reliable, and as a scientist from a major corporation I can state that Apple engineers (and almost certainly the exectives) MUST know this!
I,too, went to the Apple store to have a iphone problem fixed and was told my warranty was invalidated due to moisture.
I then called AT&T to let them know I was cancelling my service (after 20 plus years). Of course, they routed me to their save team. The skillful representative asked me if I lived in the Midwest (high humidity…). When I replied “yes”, he suggested I put my iphone in a dish of plain, white rice overnight. Rice, he explained, has the same moisture absorbing properties as the little pellet bags that are shipped with new electronic packaging.
So, it worked. Now, every night when I plug my iPhone in, I put it in a bag of rice – works fine until I can upgrade to the new phone next March.
@Al,
Al,
I’m not sure what you’re saying. Can you please clarify? Thanks.
Are you saying:
1) that putting the phone in the rice restored the water sensor strips to “normal” and AT&T was then willing to service/replace the mis-behaving phone?
or,
2) that after you got a fixed/replacement phone you started using the rice and since then you haven’t had any problems?
or,
3) that you placed your “bad” phone in the rice and the problem (whatever it was) went away and it no longer needed repair?
#3.
I have the same problem intermittently. I have called AT&T once and Apple once to resolve. They are reluctant to accept that moisture is causing the problem. So, I’ll just keep using the rice until I can upgrade without a big charge
I,too, went to the Apple store to have a iphone problem fixed and was told my warranty was invalidated due to moisture.
I then called AT&T; to let them know I was cancelling my service (after 20 plus years). Of course, they routed me to their save team. The skillful representative asked me if I lived in the Midwest (high humidity…). When I replied “yes”, he suggested I put my iphone in a dish of plain, white rice overnight. Rice, he explained, has the same moisture absorbing properties as the little pellet bags that are shipped with new electronic packaging.
So, it worked. Now, every night when I plug my iPhone in, I put it in a bag of rice – works fine until I can upgrade to the new phone next March.
@Al,
Al,
I’m not sure what you’re saying. Can you please clarify? Thanks.
Are you saying:
1) that putting the phone in the rice restored the water sensor strips to “normal” and AT&T was then willing to service/replace the mis-behaving phone?
or,
2) that after you got a fixed/replacement phone you started using the rice and since then you haven’t had any problems?
or,
3) that you placed your “bad” phone in the rice and the problem (whatever it was) went away and it no longer needed repair?
#3.
I have the same problem intermittently. I have called AT&T once and Apple once to resolve. They are reluctant to accept that moisture is causing the problem. So, I’ll just keep using the rice until I can upgrade without a big charge
I am really pissed right now, I have a 3gs its only about 2 months old, I live in Miami out of all places, so as you can imagine there is plenty of moisture, apple pisses me off a walk from my door to my car turns my rolex foggy who the hell are they to say that the water sensor that is pretty much exposed to everything from the outside world voids my warranty, they have to work on making their products more water resistant and stop screwing over good people, I know 6 people with fairly new iphones and all their water sensors are red, like I said this is Miami we live on top of a pave over swamp, I may not get far but I will make apple pay I found someone that replaces water sensors fairly cheap so I will be getting a new phone, and I am going to encourage everyone who reads this to throw their phone in the toilet replace the water sensors and enjoy a brand new 3gs on account of apple, maybe then they will consider making their phones a little more water resistant and stop screwing over good people, as for now apple will be paying for mines and all my friends new Iphones
I am really pissed right now, I have a 3gs its only about 2 months old, I live in Miami out of all places, so as you can imagine there is plenty of moisture, apple pisses me off a walk from my door to my car turns my rolex foggy who the hell are they to say that the water sensor that is pretty much exposed to everything from the outside world voids my warranty, they have to work on making their products more water resistant and stop screwing over good people, I know 6 people with fairly new iphones and all their water sensors are red, like I said this is Miami we live on top of a pave over swamp, I may not get far but I will make apple pay I found someone that replaces water sensors fairly cheap so I will be getting a new phone, and I am going to encourage everyone who reads this to throw their phone in the toilet replace the water sensors and enjoy a brand new 3gs on account of apple, maybe then they will consider making their phones a little more water resistant and stop screwing over good people, as for now apple will be paying for mines and all my friends new Iphones
Diggs: My wife and I have both had the same problem you did. Neither of our phones got wet, but of course the Apple people did not believe us. Like you, I think the sensor is overly sensitive to moisture, to put it mildly. I can understand it when someone drops their phone in water, and that’s a valid case for discontinuing the warranty. Based on our experiences with Apple employees, their unwillingness to consider our side of the story, to essentially call us liars, shows that they have dealt with this problem numerous times, and that they have been schooled by the corporate office in how to deal with offenders like us.
Diggs: My wife and I have both had the same problem you did. Neither of our phones got wet, but of course the Apple people did not believe us. Like you, I think the sensor is overly sensitive to moisture, to put it mildly. I can understand it when someone drops their phone in water, and that’s a valid case for discontinuing the warranty. Based on our experiences with Apple employees, their unwillingness to consider our side of the story, to essentially call us liars, shows that they have dealt with this problem numerous times, and that they have been schooled by the corporate office in how to deal with offenders like us.
I am having the same issue with Apple right now with my 1 month old 3G S. Please see my blog post. Help expose the fraud!
I am having the same issue with Apple right now with my 1 month old 3G S. Please see my blog post. Help expose the fraud!
Hi EDowney. Read my update on this post. That is exactly what happened for the most part. 🙂
This is a deceptive business practice on the part of Apple. But there IS hope. I had this same issue after just 5 months with the phone as well. There is a HUGE difference between “immersed in water” and a little moisture near a sensor that is practically on the outside of the phone.
Here’s what you do: Insist that they open your phone and view the internal sensors. What the 3rd Apple Tech Support Rep I spoke to did for me was make me a deal, ie if the internal sensors were white, proving that my phone was not immersed, he would replace it for free. If they were also red like the one at the charging port, then I would have to pay 199. Lo and behold, the internal sensors were white proving what I had been saying all along, that I had NEVER IMMERSED my iPhone in water. Don’t give up, go to different Apple stores see different tech support agents, be persistent don’t let Apple defraud you out of the warranty you deserve.
This is a deceptive business practice on the part of Apple. But there IS hope. I had this same issue after just 5 months with the phone as well. There is a HUGE difference between “immersed in water” and a little moisture near a sensor that is practically on the outside of the phone.
Here’s what you do: Insist that they open your phone and view the internal sensors. What the 3rd Apple Tech Support Rep I spoke to did for me was make me a deal, ie if the internal sensors were white, proving that my phone was not immersed, he would replace it for free. If they were also red like the one at the charging port, then I would have to pay 199. Lo and behold, the internal sensors were white proving what I had been saying all along, that I had NEVER IMMERSED my iPhone in water. Don’t give up, go to different Apple stores see different tech support agents, be persistent don’t let Apple defraud you out of the warranty you deserve.
With a pin hole size red mark on the moisture indicator at the bottom of my phone I have spent an inordinate amount of time freaking out, blogging, and pursuing recourse for an iPhone I KNOW has never been exposed to water. After 2 days of frustration, 2 visits to the Apple Store, 5 Tech Support agents, and finally 1 Customer Relations representative, I will be picking up a replacement iPhone from the Apple Store later on today.
The remedy to my plight came in the form of a customer service representative named Tiffany. I explained my situation to her. We politely went back and forth over Apple’s policies. And ultimately when I convinced her that I’m not trying to defraud Apple, I’m just looking for some service, she made me an exception and is getting me a new phone.
What was so different about Tiffany than the 4 others I spoke with on the phone and the two in the store? Tiffany works in the “Customer Relations” Call Center. Not “Tech Support”. For some reason the Tech Support guys don’t know to transfer you there when you want to file a complaint. How does one get to Apple Customer Relations? You either need to get to a savvy agent on the Tech Suppport line, or ask for Customer Relations by name.
Call 800-275-2273 which is the Apl Care line. Keep hitting the zero prompt to get you to the main switch board agent. Then ask for “Customer Relations”. These folks have the power to override Apple policy and provide you with service.
Tiffany has restored my faith in Apple. It shouldn’t have taken 2 days of pain. Moisture indicators shouldn’t be placed on the outside of electronic devices. But it would seem that somewhere inside the company this is a known and common occurrence and they are willing to work with people who are not abusing the system or trying to defraud the company.
Thank goodness! Deep breath! What do you know? The sun just came out too.
With a pin hole size red mark on the moisture indicator at the bottom of my phone I have spent an inordinate amount of time freaking out, blogging, and pursuing recourse for an iPhone I KNOW has never been exposed to water. After 2 days of frustration, 2 visits to the Apple Store, 5 Tech Support agents, and finally 1 Customer Relations representative, I will be picking up a replacement iPhone from the Apple Store later on today.
The remedy to my plight came in the form of a customer service representative named Tiffany. I explained my situation to her. We politely went back and forth over Apple’s policies. And ultimately when I convinced her that I’m not trying to defraud Apple, I’m just looking for some service, she made me an exception and is getting me a new phone.
What was so different about Tiffany than the 4 others I spoke with on the phone and the two in the store? Tiffany works in the “Customer Relations” Call Center. Not “Tech Support”. For some reason the Tech Support guys don’t know to transfer you there when you want to file a complaint. How does one get to Apple Customer Relations? You either need to get to a savvy agent on the Tech Suppport line, or ask for Customer Relations by name.
Call 800-275-2273 which is the Apl Care line. Keep hitting the zero prompt to get you to the main switch board agent. Then ask for “Customer Relations”. These folks have the power to override Apple policy and provide you with service.
Tiffany has restored my faith in Apple. It shouldn’t have taken 2 days of pain. Moisture indicators shouldn’t be placed on the outside of electronic devices. But it would seem that somewhere inside the company this is a known and common occurrence and they are willing to work with people who are not abusing the system or trying to defraud the company.
Thank goodness! Deep breath! What do you know? The sun just came out too.
For a Class Action to be considered by any state enough people must file a complaint with their
attorney general, or someone needs to find an attorney to handle this. Good luck.
For a Class Action to be considered by any state enough people must file a complaint with their
attorney general, or someone needs to find an attorney to handle this. Good luck.
Apple care is a rip off too! When I bought my iPhone also bought apple care. About 2 months later was having problems with the phone saying no simm card installed (although it was). Went to the Apple store was informed. My sensor says phone had been wet. I am 100% certain that I did not get it wet at all ever.
What is really upsetting is that I was sold applecare which doesn’t even kick in until the 2’nd year. But already I’m hosed!
On a whim went to AT&T store got a new simm card and everything has worked fine for 4 months now!
It just irks me that I bought an extended warranty that hasn’t even kicked in yet and it is already worthless due to a LIE!
I sincerely hope there will be a class action suit. I agree with the guy above that all the cell phone companies are doing this and it IS a sham!
Imagine if you bought an extended warraty on your car and if you got in a fender bender and now the warranty on the entire car is void. Ridiculous.
Apple care is a rip off too! When I bought my iPhone also bought apple care. About 2 months later was having problems with the phone saying no simm card installed (although it was). Went to the Apple store was informed. My sensor says phone had been wet. I am 100% certain that I did not get it wet at all ever.
What is really upsetting is that I was sold applecare which doesn’t even kick in until the 2’nd year. But already I’m hosed!
On a whim went to AT&T store got a new simm card and everything has worked fine for 4 months now!
It just irks me that I bought an extended warranty that hasn’t even kicked in yet and it is already worthless due to a LIE!
I sincerely hope there will be a class action suit. I agree with the guy above that all the cell phone companies are doing this and it IS a sham!
Imagine if you bought an extended warraty on your car and if you got in a fender bender and now the warranty on the entire car is void. Ridiculous.
Complain to your Attorney General’s Office, request a new phone, send them documentation of what you asked Apple to do, this website with a print out of all the posts to show its a widespread problem and if you don’t get anything at the least the AGO has the option to file a class action lawsuite on behalf of all who has this problem. Also, write letters to your newpaper, inform your television stations of this rip off, etc. As well as your legislators. All those things need to be done or companies will forever screw us with their products.
Complain to your Attorney General’s Office, request a new phone, send them documentation of what you asked Apple to do, this website with a print out of all the posts to show its a widespread problem and if you don’t get anything at the least the AGO has the option to file a class action lawsuite on behalf of all who has this problem. Also, write letters to your newpaper, inform your television stations of this rip off, etc. As well as your legislators. All those things need to be done or companies will forever screw us with their products.
does anyone have a suggestion for getting past the “indicator is red; i can’t do a thing for you” robotic conversation with the apple geniuses? i mean, i know distinguishing between a bead of gym sweat and a toilet plunge is difficult but i’d like to think that there’s a way… i’m open to suggestions!
does anyone have a suggestion for getting past the “indicator is red; i can’t do a thing for you” robotic conversation with the apple geniuses? i mean, i know distinguishing between a bead of gym sweat and a toilet plunge is difficult but i’d like to think that there’s a way… i’m open to suggestions!
I’m reading some comments here that the issue is because the sticker is on the outside of the phone so it is exposed to a higher degree than other phones where the sensors are inside under the battery, etc…
I manage all of the cell-phones at my office and we use Verizon. every phone we have from them has multiple sensor stickers and they are all inside; whether on the battery, behind the battery, etc…guess what, these stickers will still turn red just by being in a bathroom with steam from a shower even though the sensors are inside the phone.
it’s not a just an Apple/ATT issue…its a con by EVERY phone manufacturer/provider!
I’m reading some comments here that the issue is because the sticker is on the outside of the phone so it is exposed to a higher degree than other phones where the sensors are inside under the battery, etc…
I manage all of the cell-phones at my office and we use Verizon. every phone we have from them has multiple sensor stickers and they are all inside; whether on the battery, behind the battery, etc…guess what, these stickers will still turn red just by being in a bathroom with steam from a shower even though the sensors are inside the phone.
it’s not a just an Apple/ATT issue…its a con by EVERY phone manufacturer/provider!
Wow rocky are YOU serious? Read the entire post. The sensor in question according to the poster was never exposed to liquid. If it was activated then obviously it was but probably happened from normal use and the moisture was in an amount not detectable by the user. Sensor location, sensor tolerance, etc.. all have a role in this. An activated sensor does not automatically mean moisture caused the device malfunction. Your line of thinking..”suck it up”.. is not good for consumer or the product.
Wow rocky are YOU serious? Read the entire post. The sensor in question according to the poster was never exposed to liquid. If it was activated then obviously it was but probably happened from normal use and the moisture was in an amount not detectable by the user. Sensor location, sensor tolerance, etc.. all have a role in this. An activated sensor does not automatically mean moisture caused the device malfunction. Your line of thinking..”suck it up”.. is not good for consumer or the product.
@Lee
Hi Lee,
It looks like that $199 policy is back. Give your local store a call and verify! Apple just changed it.
@Lee
Hi Lee,
It looks like that $199 policy is back. Give your local store a call and verify! Apple just changed it.
With th e number of people just writing here about the problems with this design flaw by Apple I have just three words for you: CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT
The attorney’s get a percentage, you ask for free replacements of the NEW design, etc.
Put up a yahoogroup webpage with a catchy name like “BadApple” or something similar. Decide who is the most motivated, legal-wised person on the group, then begin looking for an HONEST specialty attorney in Consumer Protection. Not these crooked lawyers who advertise and take 50% then YOU pay the legal fees.
No, a decent attorney will take a smaller percentage (15 – 20 % or so) and work to get everyone a good honest settlement.
The only way consumers will stopped getting scr*wed is we fight back. Corporate greed is used to our complacency. Our believing the corporate lies that whisper “there isn’t anything you can do about it”.
They never thought a little known black man with a middle of Hussein would ever be elected President
either, did they? When we all pitch in and work together, positive chances can help but occur.
With th e number of people just writing here about the problems with this design flaw by Apple I have just three words for you: CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT
The attorney’s get a percentage, you ask for free replacements of the NEW design, etc.
Put up a yahoogroup webpage with a catchy name like “BadApple” or something similar. Decide who is the most motivated, legal-wised person on the group, then begin looking for an HONEST specialty attorney in Consumer Protection. Not these crooked lawyers who advertise and take 50% then YOU pay the legal fees.
No, a decent attorney will take a smaller percentage (15 – 20 % or so) and work to get everyone a good honest settlement.
The only way consumers will stopped getting scr*wed is we fight back. Corporate greed is used to our complacency. Our believing the corporate lies that whisper “there isn’t anything you can do about it”.
They never thought a little known black man with a middle of Hussein would ever be elected President
either, did they? When we all pitch in and work together, positive chances can help but occur.
I have been recently introduced to the same “warranty void” issue. Red dot seen within USB connector port. Where are the warnings when purchased about this poor design ?? At&T didn’t mention it. Apple reps told me they just started to based upon the number of complaints that they have been receiving. I have had my iPhone for 5 monthes and have had problems on and off since the beginning. After going through the full story with the guys at Apple Store, they agreed to replace the phone – up until they did the moisture check. “You must have dropped it in water”. Knowing full well that never happened, I challenged with “wouldn’t both sensors have turned red then” ?? Only to receive, “well you’re base sensor is red. Your warranty is void”.
Unfortunately, I do not have the luxury of a company purchased phone. Though the guys at Apple were empathic, those of us that have purchased through AT&T are SOL. As I was told, up until recently AT&T would trade out the phone for $199. (Still not sure how that is an attractive solution) However, based upon the number of complaints and returns, AT&T has gone to Apple and stated that customers in this position will need to replace the phone at full price $599.
I read a related article of a person who had the phone for only 3 weeks, worked out at the gym, not knowing set of the sensor, and was told by AT&T / Apple your SOL. I was upset at 5 months. 3 weeks ?? I can only imagine. This issue is a serious design flaw.
For the idiots who have posted, you should know better (electronics + water) or Apple will replace it you obviously have no experience with the issue. For me, this wasn’t a throw away expenditure and I treated the phone with extreme care. Somehow, unknowingly, moisture set off the base sensor. Not dropped in the water or other agreed user mis-uses.
Unfortunatley, I bought into the hype. Had I known or been warned of the issue before or during purchase, I wouldn’t be stuck with my worst technology investment ever.
I have been recently introduced to the same “warranty void” issue. Red dot seen within USB connector port. Where are the warnings when purchased about this poor design ?? At&T didn’t mention it. Apple reps told me they just started to based upon the number of complaints that they have been receiving. I have had my iPhone for 5 monthes and have had problems on and off since the beginning. After going through the full story with the guys at Apple Store, they agreed to replace the phone – up until they did the moisture check. “You must have dropped it in water”. Knowing full well that never happened, I challenged with “wouldn’t both sensors have turned red then” ?? Only to receive, “well you’re base sensor is red. Your warranty is void”.
Unfortunately, I do not have the luxury of a company purchased phone. Though the guys at Apple were empathic, those of us that have purchased through AT&T are SOL. As I was told, up until recently AT&T would trade out the phone for $199. (Still not sure how that is an attractive solution) However, based upon the number of complaints and returns, AT&T has gone to Apple and stated that customers in this position will need to replace the phone at full price $599.
I read a related article of a person who had the phone for only 3 weeks, worked out at the gym, not knowing set of the sensor, and was told by AT&T / Apple your SOL. I was upset at 5 months. 3 weeks ?? I can only imagine. This issue is a serious design flaw.
For the idiots who have posted, you should know better (electronics + water) or Apple will replace it you obviously have no experience with the issue. For me, this wasn’t a throw away expenditure and I treated the phone with extreme care. Somehow, unknowingly, moisture set off the base sensor. Not dropped in the water or other agreed user mis-uses.
Unfortunatley, I bought into the hype. Had I known or been warned of the issue before or during purchase, I wouldn’t be stuck with my worst technology investment ever.
I’m a producer at the NBC affiliate in Boston. I’m doing a story on people who have been told by Apple that the water sensor in the iPhone has been tripped, when they never submerged it in water. I’ve read lots of stories like yours on other blog sites. There are a lot of frustrated people.
Apple markets the phone to be taken everywhere (the gym especially) so shouldn’t it be designed to withstand that activity? And if it can’t shouldn’t Apple do something to correct the design?
I would love to include what happened to you in my story. Please be in touch. My contact info. is below.
Laura Stebbins
Special Projects Producer
WHDH.TV – CW.56
7 Bulfinch Place
Boston, MA 02114
617-725-0769 (p)
802-238-0833 (c)
lstebbins@whdh.com
I’m a producer at the NBC affiliate in Boston. I’m doing a story on people who have been told by Apple that the water sensor in the iPhone has been tripped, when they never submerged it in water. I’ve read lots of stories like yours on other blog sites. There are a lot of frustrated people.
Apple markets the phone to be taken everywhere (the gym especially) so shouldn’t it be designed to withstand that activity? And if it can’t shouldn’t Apple do something to correct the design?
I would love to include what happened to you in my story. Please be in touch. My contact info. is below.
Laura Stebbins
Special Projects Producer
WHDH.TV – CW.56
7 Bulfinch Place
Boston, MA 02114
617-725-0769 (p)
802-238-0833 (c)
lstebbins@whdh.com
No one was “showering” with their cell phone. I am yet another person who sets their phone on the counter top in the bathroom. I have a 1st gen iphone, no problems. This is an implementation issue. These phones don’t get really vetted until lots of people use them in varying locales and environments and start seeing the apparent problems that emerge from real everyday, every-way use. It sounds to me like the sensor is too close to the opening and is exposed more than it should be.
I did computer hardware repair for years. Manufacturers would constantly play with temp limits or fan rpm limits on their motherboards through the life of a machine to keep the cpu’s or motherboards from overheating or warn of impending fan failures. In one case the upper limit was too low (but tolerable compared to other models from the same manufacturer) and the user’s machine would power off for no apparent reason. It took three calls to get someone on the phone who knew about the problem and let us know it was fixed in a bios update. And don’t even get me started on ambient light sensors.
If she dropped it into a toilet I would agree. I’m all about personal responsibility but not on a counter in the bathroom while showering. I can replicate those conditions on a, so muggy I can’t breathe, July day in Chicago. Am I to blame for using my iPhone outside then?
No one was “showering” with their cell phone. I am yet another person who sets their phone on the counter top in the bathroom. I have a 1st gen iphone, no problems. This is an implementation issue. These phones don’t get really vetted until lots of people use them in varying locales and environments and start seeing the apparent problems that emerge from real everyday, every-way use. It sounds to me like the sensor is too close to the opening and is exposed more than it should be.
I did computer hardware repair for years. Manufacturers would constantly play with temp limits or fan rpm limits on their motherboards through the life of a machine to keep the cpu’s or motherboards from overheating or warn of impending fan failures. In one case the upper limit was too low (but tolerable compared to other models from the same manufacturer) and the user’s machine would power off for no apparent reason. It took three calls to get someone on the phone who knew about the problem and let us know it was fixed in a bios update. And don’t even get me started on ambient light sensors.
If she dropped it into a toilet I would agree. I’m all about personal responsibility but not on a counter in the bathroom while showering. I can replicate those conditions on a, so muggy I can’t breathe, July day in Chicago. Am I to blame for using my iPhone outside then?
@Freddy
They put the sensor on the outside of the phone, if I understood correctly. Other cell phones the sensor is inside the phone. Poor design is not the fault of the buyer. I take my Motorola in with me all the time when
I shower. No problem. Sorry, Freddy. You are wrong IMHO.
@Freddy
They put the sensor on the outside of the phone, if I understood correctly. Other cell phones the sensor is inside the phone. Poor design is not the fault of the buyer. I take my Motorola in with me all the time when
I shower. No problem. Sorry, Freddy. You are wrong IMHO.
Great blog, found it thru the CNN story. I do think you are crazy to have taken it into the shower, obviously that is a hi humidity environment that is very bad for any electronic device. the other issues you mention are valid, but i do think its your fault and you should have to pay for a new device.
Great blog, found it thru the CNN story. I do think you are crazy to have taken it into the shower, obviously that is a hi humidity environment that is very bad for any electronic device. the other issues you mention are valid, but i do think its your fault and you should have to pay for a new device.
I appreciate your blog. I have been looking forward to the day my contract ran out with my cell carrier so that I could sign up with AT&T to get the iPhone. After reading your (and other accounts of mishaps on CNN.com) I think I will not be changing after all. You just saved me $400.00 + money I can not afford to throw away. Thank you.
I appreciate your blog. I have been looking forward to the day my contract ran out with my cell carrier so that I could sign up with AT&T to get the iPhone. After reading your (and other accounts of mishaps on CNN.com) I think I will not be changing after all. You just saved me $400.00 + money I can not afford to throw away. Thank you.
Could you explain the difference between “humidity” and “liquid”…because I can tell you that the “sensors”
will turn red if you breathe heavily on one cupped in your
hands…yes I have tried it, twice.
In short, a walk to the front door on a foggy morning can essentially void your warranty.
Could you explain the difference between “humidity” and “liquid”…because I can tell you that the “sensors”
will turn red if you breathe heavily on one cupped in your
hands…yes I have tried it, twice.
In short, a walk to the front door on a foggy morning can essentially void your warranty.
Hi George, I did try that exact trick time and time again, but it was only a temporary fix.
Thanks!
Did you even read the whole blog posting? I say time and time again that MY
PHONE HAS NOT BEEN WET. Nor was my phone dead.
Going to continue my “whine” now. Geez
Actually, the same thing happened to a a guy I work with. He used to take his iPhone to the gym all the time to workout and probably used it in the rain, but definitely did not soak it in the toilet or any such thing. When the phone started malfunctioning, he sent it in for service and they sent it back saying that the moisture sensor was tripped. No repair for him. Like you, he got it through work and it was eventually replaced by his employer, but it was still really frustrating for all involved.
Actually, the same thing happened to a a guy I work with. He used to take his iPhone to the gym all the time to workout and probably used it in the rain, but definitely did not soak it in the toilet or any such thing. When the phone started malfunctioning, he sent it in for service and they sent it back saying that the moisture sensor was tripped. No repair for him. Like you, he got it through work and it was eventually replaced by his employer, but it was still really frustrating for all involved.
Wow are you serious? Electonics + water = Dead device Use your brain your phone should be in a dry area always!!! I work at sprint and whenever a customer comes in with a wet phone it never works the same! Companies dont have any responsibility to your device when you void the warranty its very black and white so just suck it up and get one at the replacement price Geez you can whine all you want but in the end you are responsible for Iphone.
Wow are you serious? Electonics + water = Dead device Use your brain your phone should be in a dry area always!!! I work at sprint and whenever a customer comes in with a wet phone it never works the same! Companies dont have any responsibility to your device when you void the warranty its very black and white so just suck it up and get one at the replacement price Geez you can whine all you want but in the end you are responsible for Iphone.
I had the same issue but i got it to work, first i turned off the phone with out the headphones plugged in, then turned it back on, unlocked it, still didnt work, so i went to the ipod and played a song, there was a delay of 1 to 2 seconds before the song played. Then i stopped playing the song and tried the using the phone again, it ended up working! If that dosent work try plugging the headphones in while playing a song then unplug them again if the song keeps playing then the phone works. Im not sure if it will work for yours, but its worth trying… good luck!
I had the same issue but i got it to work, first i turned off the phone with out the headphones plugged in, then turned it back on, unlocked it, still didnt work, so i went to the ipod and played a song, there was a delay of 1 to 2 seconds before the song played. Then i stopped playing the song and tried the using the phone again, it ended up working! If that dosent work try plugging the headphones in while playing a song then unplug them again if the song keeps playing then the phone works. Im not sure if it will work for yours, but its worth trying… good luck!
Actually if you re-read my post, it was NOT the headphone jack that had the sensor activated. That one is still white as it should be. It was not set off by alcohol. It was the one under the USB connector which I never touched. And it is NOT recessed deep at all. You can see it right there very close to the edge in a little “hole”.
I did call Apple back, that’s how I got the $100 coupon. In the beginning, I talked to the support line, which setup the appointment and sent me to the Apple store in the first place. After my visit to the Apple store where I was told about the sensor, I called Apple Care Support again. It was explained to me again that there was nothing that they could do, blah, blah. The customer service rep agreed with me that Apple knows the sensors are in a bad place, and that they will not be that way in the future. As I was giving my scenarios of what could happen he kept going “Yep, you are right”. He then offered me the coupon for my trouble.
I have one more person that I plan to talk too, which is our Campus rep. Maybe they can get something done. I will keep you posted.
The point is, my phone has not been wet with ‘water’. I am not trying to get over on Apple. As I said in my post, the worst that could have happened is the condensation from being in the bathroom while I shower.
I will let you know what happens.
I’m sorry for what happened to your iPhone, but you might want to add to “what this means for us iPhone users”
#5 Don’t put a q-tip into your headphone jack with alcohol or other liquid.
#6 Don’t use Google instead of Apple support for any physical advice.
Those sensors don’t just react to humidity, they really need direct contact with liquid, and the headphone one is recessed very deep, such that it’s highly likely that if it were activated that significant liquid did get into it to cause a problem.
But the story doesn’t end there.
Call Apple back up and tell them the full story. Tell them that it was already malfunctioning when you stuck the q-tip with the rubbing alcohol in. While that action may be considered a voiding of the warranty, Apple may very well consider the whole story. Be persistent and see what happens. I bet you’ll get a new iPhone…then again, you might not want to pursue this course of action so that you’ll have an excuse to get the new iPhone this summer.
BTW: I used to run one of the largest Apple service centers. You could open a box up and have fish flying out of the thing and if someone was a squeaky enough of a wheel, they’d still get warranty coverage.
Kevine’s last blog post..iPhone OS 3: in-app sales will be ok
I’m sorry for what happened to your iPhone, but you might want to add to “what this means for us iPhone users”
#5 Don’t put a q-tip into your headphone jack with alcohol or other liquid.
#6 Don’t use Google instead of Apple support for any physical advice.
Those sensors don’t just react to humidity, they really need direct contact with liquid, and the headphone one is recessed very deep, such that it’s highly likely that if it were activated that significant liquid did get into it to cause a problem.
But the story doesn’t end there.
Call Apple back up and tell them the full story. Tell them that it was already malfunctioning when you stuck the q-tip with the rubbing alcohol in. While that action may be considered a voiding of the warranty, Apple may very well consider the whole story. Be persistent and see what happens. I bet you’ll get a new iPhone…then again, you might not want to pursue this course of action so that you’ll have an excuse to get the new iPhone this summer.
BTW: I used to run one of the largest Apple service centers. You could open a box up and have fish flying out of the thing and if someone was a squeaky enough of a wheel, they’d still get warranty coverage.
Kevine’s last blog post..iPhone OS 3: in-app sales will be ok
Wow that’s pretty crappy. You brought up some very good points the first thing that came to mind was the phone being in a persons pocket when they start sweating. I consider myself a fair and reasonable guy so I tend to hold grudges when companies tick me off as a consumer. Good thing the phone was purchased by your employer and is still operable.
Wardell’s last blog post..Wardell Design WordCamp Chicago Giveaway
Wow that’s pretty crappy. You brought up some very good points the first thing that came to mind was the phone being in a persons pocket when they start sweating. I consider myself a fair and reasonable guy so I tend to hold grudges when companies tick me off as a consumer. Good thing the phone was purchased by your employer and is still operable.
Wardell’s last blog post..Wardell Design WordCamp Chicago Giveaway
on my phone (not an iphone) behind the battery cover there is usually a sensor or two (usually one on the battery). i put of piece of clear scotch tape over top of it. That way if i have it in the bathroom when i’m showering it will be protected from setting it off. Still screwed if you drop it in the toilet (how does that happen anyway?) cause it will set off the ones inside but otherwise it helps a lot!
Kids don’t take care of anything and so they expect mommy and daddy to buy them a new phone if they drop it in the toilet. What is a child doing with a $300 phone anyway???
@Jack Meoff,
I will assume that you are talking about my boss’ daughter? She is in her 20s and could afford to buy her own phone.
on my phone (not an iphone) behind the battery cover there is usually a sensor or two (usually one on the battery). i put of piece of clear scotch tape over top of it. That way if i have it in the bathroom when i’m showering it will be protected from setting it off. Still screwed if you drop it in the toilet (how does that happen anyway?) cause it will set off the ones inside but otherwise it helps a lot!
Kids don’t take care of anything and so they expect mommy and daddy to buy them a new phone if they drop it in the toilet. What is a child doing with a $300 phone anyway???
@Jack Meoff,
I will assume that you are talking about my boss’ daughter? She is in her 20s and could afford to buy her own phone.